In the latest episode of the Cannacurio Podcast from Cannabiz Media, my co-host, Amanda Guerrero, and I discuss hemp licenses, Florida license violations, and more. We also speak with Bryan Lopez, CEO, and Scott Denholm, COO, of BryteMap, which is a comprehensive seed-to-sale software solution for all cannabis businesses growers, dispensaries, and suppliers.
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Cannacurio Podcast Episode 12 Transcript
Amanda Guerrero: Welcome to the Cannacurio Podcast powered by Cannabiz Media. We’re your hosts, Amanda Guerrero and Ed Keating. On today’s show, we’re joined by Bryan Lopez, CEO of Brytemap, and Scott Denholm, the Chief Operating Officer. We’re very excited to have them join us on today’s show. But as always, before we jump in with our guests, let’s check-in and see what news Ed has learned this week from the data vault. Ed?
Ed Keating: Hi, Amanda. As we’ve seen the last couple of weeks, there’s a lot going on in the world of hemp. A lot of these programs have now issued all their licenses or at least the ones that are issuing them on an annual basis. And we just recently added in 755 or so hemp licenses for the state along with 675 people as well. So if you’re trying to reach them, we’ve got that information as well.
There are three different license types in the state, and it includes growers, processors, and testers. And what we saw in looking at the data, it was not a lot of vertical integration, so you didn’t get too many people stacking up multiple licenses. What we did see is that 81% of the licenses are cultivators. And that’s really consistent with what we see across HIPAA programs nationally, that they tend to be very grow heavy.
We also noticed that the CBD consumables are going to be handled by another regulator. Once again, that’s pretty consistent too as CBD becomes more into the mainstream, most states are realizing they don’t need a whole agency to regulate that. So it often comes under the Department of Health or people regulate food, etc.
One of the most interesting things that I saw in all the regs I looked at for Texas is that the state will compile a list of banned producers if they’re bad actors. So if they do three naughty things over the course of a couple of years, they will get on the list. So I’ll be looking forward to finding that list from the regulator at some point in the future.
Amanda Guerrero: Wow. That’s interesting to note about Texas not having a lot of vertical integration. It’s a different story than some of the other hemp markets that we’ve covered. But looking ahead, Ed, regarding the CBD consumables, do you think we’re going to see a similar license trend to what we saw in Louisiana or Florida regarding convenience stores listed as licensed retailers for hemp CBD?
Ed Keating: It’s a good question. We’ve actually got one of the attorneys on the team taking a look at that and other states too because it just makes a lot of sense. I think from a regulatory standpoint and from a government standpoint, as I said before, who has to create a whole nother regulator just for one product type.
And as I’ve said before on the pod, a lot of these companies who get these licenses, often convenience stores, grocery stores, etc., are already really good at handling highly regulated products like tobacco, lottery tickets, alcohol, gasoline – all these things that are heavily taxed and regulated. I think CBD fits right in there. My guess is we’re going to see more of that and time will time certainly tell.
The other thing that we’ve been looking at are Florida violations. So we did a request from the regulator and they finally got back to us. And it’s been pretty interesting to dig through those. A lot of specificity, I guess, as there should be if you’re getting a violation thrown against you.
But one that I had read about in another article and actually saw the document was MedMen getting fined $15,000 for changing window tints. And then, Knox Medical, getting letters from the state because apparently their delivery trucks were carrying some sort of advertising and they hadn’t had that approved ahead of time. And then 3 Boys Farms, One Plant, also got the window tint violation. Definitely, some interesting stories there that I’ll be digging into and doing a blog post on for next week.
Amanda Guerrero: Ooh, I can’t wait to read more about the blog post. Just out of curiosity, did you notice any other trends in the violations, seems like the window tints were giving people some trouble?
Ed Keating: You know what? In that state that seemed to be a big one. There’s actually a third company that also had that. But in trying to look at what we see in other states, they’re really all over the map. A lot of times it’s how people handle the product and put it in places they’re not supposed to.
Somebody did get in trouble in Florida for how they stored flower or how they manage their manifests. I think those kinds of administrative things are probably more consistent across states, whereas the signage and the window tints – there are a lot of rules on that.
I know that here in the State of Connecticut, they came up with a 15-page document on all the rules and regs you needed just for how you advertise. Can you have neon signs? Can the signs be illuminated? Can they be illuminated after dark, to what hours? I think there’s a lot of that that happens in this space across the country, but it can be hard to get this information and write about it.
Amanda Guerrero: Well, I look forward to digging into the violations with you and the data team with your new publication, so thanks so much, Ed. As I mentioned today, we’ll be joined by Bryan Lopez and Scott Denholm from Brytemap, stay tuned.
Welcome back to the show, everyone. Today we’re joined with Bryan Lopez and Scott Denholm of Brytemap. Both are veterans within the industry. And we are so excited to have them on the show. Bryan is the current CEO of Brytemap and Scott is the COO. Welcome you two. How are you both doing?
Bryan Lopez: Doing well. Doing well. Thank you for having us on the day, Amanda.
Amanda Guerrero: It’s our pleasure. We’re so excited to have the Brytemap team on with us. Not only are you guys industry veterans but also have been Cannabiz Media subscribers and one of our power users. Thank you for joining us, but I wanted to give some background to our audience here. Bryan, I’ll ask you first. How long have you been in the industry and where did you work before?
Bryan Lopez: I’m going on about three and a half years in the industry. We started the company in late 2016, really got going in, I would say in earnest in 2017. Prior to that, I had worked for an IT solutions provider focused mainly in IBM space, have a lot of experience with working within IBM in their solutions, also Microsoft SAP, and VMware. So my background literally from the time that I was in college has been relating back to IT.
Amanda Guerrero: Wow! Understood. And Scott, how about you? How long have you been in the industry?
Scott Denholm: If you’re going to make me date myself, I’ve been working in the industry for about 10 years now. I started as a private consultant in 2010 working for the Department of Gaming in Colorado as a consultant, but specifically around marijuana tracking. So it’s been about 10 years now.
Ed Keating: Wow. Well, thanks for sharing that with us. It’s definitely a lot of industry expertise that you both are bringing into this space. I’d like to switch over to Brytemap specifically. I’m hoping you could tell us, as the two leaders of the company, what makes you unique and what makes Brytemap the great solution that it is for the industry?
Bryan Lopez: Well, I think the thing that we’re really excited about in terms of where Brytemap is heading is that the software and the solutions that we’re coming up with, and I feel like we’re on such a real accelerated pace of innovation right now. And we’re actually able to do that because of the luxury of having a new software code to work with.
A lot of the things that we’ve incorporated are some of the newer technologies out there. So we’re able to really pivot some new concepts rather quickly. And to be able to have something like that, I believe when you’re dealing with something that is more modern and sort of 2020 versus potentially something in the earlier 2013 or less, there were some limitations just from a technology standpoint of what could be possible.
We’re really excited about the fact that we’re coming to the market with some really innovative products that are designed to not just address one point solution or another. What we’re trying to do, and it’s a very ambitious lift, is to look at the industry and especially the retailers and processes of dispensary in growers, and try to encapsulate all the things that go on in a business’s day in the life of, and be able to address each of those needs within our software platform.
That’s a very grand, somewhat monolithic vision, but it’s also something that from a support standpoint, I think becomes a very, very important thing to have.
Ed Keating: Yeah. It sounds like … one way to describe that in other industries I’ve been in is trying to create an end-to-end workflow solution so that if you’re in a grow, or manufacturing, or in a dispensary, you’re really able to do all the tasks you need to do within Brytemap. Is that kind of what your vision is?
Bryan Lopez: That’s an accurate statement, Ed. And we’re really excited because we’ve got the GreenR platform out on the market that is designed to do exactly what you just described, which is to take a lot of those disparate tools that a lot of dispensaries are spending money on every month, and having to deal with the different support calls to make potentially finger-pointing and things like that.
We’re trying to bring it all under one umbrella so that the user who is very focused on promoting their business, driving more transactions, engaging their customers, can spend more time doing that as opposed to dealing with technical support issues across multiple platforms.
Ed Keating: That makes a lot of sense. And one of the things that I wanted to touch on today, and it also goes back to what Amanda and I were talking about earlier, are violations and compliance data. And I think as you have gone out to the marketplace, you’ve highlighted to potential customers, “Hey, you don’t want to wind up in a situation where you’re not compliant with Metrc,” or other things like that.
I’m curious how is that working for your customer? How is that messaging working? And how does your product help keep your customers out of harm’s way?
Bryan Lopez: Okay. Well, just in terms of Metrc right now, obviously, my partner, Scott, who spent the latter part of 10 years with Metrc and building that solution up to what it is today. There’s a couple of different things that we’re doing. And I’ll start with, Scout, because I think Scout is the product that’s really going to be there and is there now for users to take advantage of.
But it’s designed to handle one fundamental requirement for growers, processors, and dispensary, which is I have tags. I need to make sure that the tags, whether they’re on a plant or on a package are reflected properly within Metrc. I’ve got to have inventory that matches on my side of the world, but also in the state regulatory side of the world.
That is the basic need that a lot of the operators need right now. And what we’re doing is leveraging the power of RFID to do that, which is wonderful because now we can actually talk to our operators and say, “Look, the investment that you’ve made in these 45 said tags,” or whatever they’re going to run, “can actually get something out of it now.” And it’s really one of the first times that a company has been actually able to take advantage of that. So it’s starting off with that one fundamental need. Help me solve my Metrc dilemmas, if there are dilemmas.
And then, as we move that through to the retail platform like I mentioned with GreenR, GreenR has got to be able to ensure compliance, but also we were making some attempts and we’re being successful with it in allowing some of our states or some of our users in the states to be able to pull some of that Metrc data into the actual point-of-sale system that allows patient counselors or budtenders to see what a patient’s allocation is in real-time, which provides just that greater level of visibility, that greater level of oversight, which keeps operators out of trouble, out of the harm’s way, as you had mentioned.
Ed Keating: That makes a lot of sense in terms of really helping those folks, especially getting real-time data, which we know in our business of Cannabiz Media is super important.
Now, one of the questions I wanted to throw over to Scott has to do with entering new markets. And I don’t mean it from necessarily a sales standpoint, but as the company is trying to figure out where do we go next?
If you go into a new state, it’s my understanding that “Okay, there’s a whole new set of business rules that are going to have to get ingested by Brytemap.” Scott, I wonder if you could walk us through what that approach is like from the COO perspective?
Scott Denholm: It’s a great question. I appreciate that. It’s really understanding what the rules and regulations are going to be like. The wonderful thing about being on this side of the industry is if you look at the state’s rules and regulations of what they’ve published, and then look at similarities to states that they want to emulate, you can actually get a good idea of how to anticipate your customers’ needs. Ultimately, at the end of the day, successful companies are good at meeting their customers’ needs and anticipating what they want.
And being on this side of the bridge, and you’re actually looking what the state’s requirements are legally, like for instance, in Maryland, we have COMAR. The Code of Maryland Regulations tells you exactly what the state is expecting, and what they want, and what they anticipate their licenses are going to do. And that gives us a [inaudible 00:15:14].
It tells us what do we need to do with our software, understanding what the regulatory side of it is. So when we look at a new state, we can actually just look up and take an advanced look and say, “This is where the state is going.” And say, “Hey, they’re comparing hemp to other states,” then you can see where they’re going to head.” So it’s really about public compliance, public safety and helping our customers be in compliance with one state or the other.
Ed Keating: Got it. And Bryan, sort of from the business side, how do you make the determination as to where to go? I’ve been looking a lot at who connects to Metrc and in what states? Brytemap connects really broadly across the United States, which I think is great because I know if I were choosing a software provider, I’d want somebody who’s been to a couple of rodeos and knows the rules and regs across the country. How do you decide, “Boy, we really need to get into Missouri,” or whatever that next state is?
Bryan Lopez: Well, for right now, we’re a small company. We’re growing our company at hopefully what is deemed to be a responsible rate. I don’t want to be too ahead over my skis in terms of getting into a market that we can’t support. Right now, what we’re really focused on are the states primarily that use Metrc. Hopefully, for any listeners out there that doesn’t discourage because there’s some other things we have coming down the pipe.
But I think where we add the most value right now and where we need to focus our energies will be in those states that are relatively new to Metrc and relatively new to having medical programs, recreational programs as well. We’ve got a short list of states that we really think hold a tremendous amount of potential.
And I feel like what we can do is really look at some of these states, and primarily, those emerging market states are only East Coast or East of the Mississippi River. There’s heavy populations, and I think that that’s really where right now knowing what we have available to people and how our deliverable comes out, and the methodology on how we support our customers in terms of an initial implementation really lends itself to some of these states that have new independent operators that are really interested in trying to get themselves to a place where they can conduct business without having to juggle a lot of those different technologies, like I had mentioned earlier.
So for us, yes, emerging market states, ones that use Metrc, primarily focused in the East and the Midwest.
Ed Keating: That makes sense. And to try and help me understand and put you guys in the right frame, how do you describe yourself to these potential license holders? Because it seems you’ve gone way beyond being a point-of-sale solutions provider. To me it seems like almost a seed-to-sale provider, is that right? Or how do you describe yourself to potential customers?
Bryan Lopez: I portray us, and I really try to sell the idea that we are a high-grade enterprise solution for dispensaries, processors, and all the way back to growers. We have a lot of products on the roadmap and things that haven’t even been released to the market yet. Eventually we will put all the pieces together for that big seed to sale platform. And we don’t have that yet, but we’re putting those pieces together.
I really want to use that opportunity to get a foothold in the door with our growers and processors with Scout, because Scout provides immediate value regardless of what other seed-to-sale solution that they may be running. It doesn’t matter, they could still continue to run it. Our devices are mobile-based platform that’s as I said, it’s there to design. It’s there for a point solution that is there to help with regulatory and compliance.
But the long broad vision, Ed, is that what we just did with GreenR in the dispensary is exactly what we’re going to do with the growers and the processors which used to bring in that very broad platform. We really are focused on checking off the fundamental boxes of compliance first and foremost.
And it’s the one thing that, Scott told me that we would do upon his arrival to Brytemap which was, if we’re going to do anything first, it’s going to be to feed the beast, the beast being Metrc. Once we can do that, then we can get into some of the other business processes, some of the analytics data that we’d like to go after.
But I think we all know that a lot of this takes time, and it takes a lot of money to get to this point. And we’re trying to pick off the quick wins and the things that we believe are going to matter most to people.
Ed Keating: That sounds like a great formula. As somebody who’s done a lot of workflow, software, some of the rules that I remember we tried to focus on were you want to automate things that are repetitive in nature that also have a high risk of noncompliance. And in this case, you certainly don’t want your customers to lose a license, something of high value because they didn’t do it right.
And then, thirdly, you tend to want to have some sort of a rule base that you can check and make sure it’s right. And then fourth, you’re probably going to be producing some sort of artifact so that people can say, “Okay, I have my report, I know I’m good.” So it sounds like if you’re focusing on those things, you definitely have a great formula. We’ll all stay tuned for what’s on that roadmap and what’s coming next. I’ll be looking forward to hearing more.
Bryan Lopez: Yeah. It’s going to be a very exciting second half of the year for us. And going into 2021, we really are hoping that we can get what we believe is going to be a real … it’s going to be a standard bear for the growers and processors out there. It’s a very time-consuming process of what we’re undergoing, but we’ve got a lot of optimism with it. And again, it’s really just a matter of trying to put all the pieces together, come out with something that’s going to make an immediate impact on operators.
And I want to stress that what we’re trying to do on that side of the world with growers and processors is not just going to pertain to states that use Metrc in operations in those states. It’s actually going to be designed to handle the hemp industry as well, which is one of the more time-consuming elements to all of this. Because if you think about it, there’s a whole different set of regulations and a whole different set of workflows that are going to need to occur with the hemp industry as opposed to what we have with the marijuana side.
Ed Keating: Without a doubt on hemp.
Amanda Guerrero: Well, looking ahead, Bryan, I mean, both you and Scott have shared some great insights as to what’s next for the BryteMap team, but I wanted to pivot the conversation a little bit towards some of your sales and marketing efforts, specifically as it is, you guys utilize the Cannabiz Media platform. How has Cannabiz Media helped you guys to further connect with the license holders and the operators?
Bryan Lopez: Well, a shameless plug for Cannabiz Media here.
Amanda Guerrero: We love it.
Bryan Lopez: We signed up with Cannabiz Media about two years ago, and it is something that we work in every day. We want to stay up on the latest and greatest – not only the regulatory news, but business news. So we constantly are using this as really an extension of our CRM, our internal CRM platform.
And it’s turned out to be a very useful tool because as we get ourselves into some of these marketing campaigns, and if we want to be very specific about the particular verticals that we’re going to go after and in the particular states, we have that ability to drill down on it.
I think one of the more interesting things is when I’m talking to some potential investors in our company, and everybody wants to ask “Well, what’s the addressable market?” Well, let me tell you what the addressable market is. And I say, “How much time do you have?” And then usually what I try to do is to pull them on some type of a call where they can see my screen and I pull up Cannabiz Media, and I go, “Look, if you want to know how many different entities are within the U.S. and Canada, and we can just go through all these different filtering parameters.” They’re like, “Wow! Okay, I get it.”
So this is almost, I don’t want to say infinite, but it sure feels close to that. And I think a lot of our efforts are going to be tied to being targeted around some of these campaigns that we want to go after. I mean, obviously with Scout, we feel like there’s a ton of value for the growers in particular.
We have full visibility by using your platform, Cannabiz Media, to be able to go after some of those particular operations. I think as we evolve as a company, one of the things that we’re really going to be focused on is content marketing. Scott and I really enjoy doing interviews with folks because I could sit here and talk all day, but really the guy that’s part of this podcast who has over 10 years of experience in the industry from a regulatory side, who could I’m sure write a book about each of how these states went into Metrc.
We have some real knowledgeable folks that I’m really happy to be a part of. And I’m there as, I guess you could call me the Pied Piper at my company. But from a wealth of knowledge, Scott’s the guy. So I think we want to take some of that market to people, have people understand that we’re not just a software company that’s trying to make their way in the cannabis industry, but we actually know what we’re talking about because we have the experience and all they have to do is look at Scott’s bio.
Ed Keating: Yeah. That’s a great point. Absolutely, having subject matter expertise is so important when it comes to compliance and making sure that you keep your customers out of harm’s way and help make them successful.
Pivoting over to Scott, once again, looking ahead, I’m curious, what kind of trends you’re seeing as you perhaps look at the data that you get and what may be coming from the COVID crisis as well?
Scott Denholm: Well, I think, first go back and Cannabiz Media is one of the key aspects for us is that forecasting aspect. Because you guys provide us with a level of data that helps us decide which states we’re going to go to. Which states we want to look at and put a presence in. I mean, there’s always that, everybody [inaudible 00:27:01] from a software perspective because it’s five companies, right? And it’s [inaudible 00:27:06] on one. But those are the easy things you get into, should we go after Ohio or Michigan? What does our product do? What do we need to change or alter to bein that state?
I mean, your data that we believe from what you’re doing is very helpful from a product development standpoint as well. I just wanted to jump in there with Bryan’s comments on sales and marketing is important, but there’s also a lot of how you … when you’re trying to develop a product roadmap. About who you are going after?
So forecasting is [inaudible 00:27:40]. I just wanted to throw that out. So it’s very important to have as we move along that access to that data and then with developing products and make sense.
Ed Keating: Oh great. And I’ll be curious to see how those other trends develop that will impact the industry really for all of us, because it’s curious to see how some of the future cannabis programs have gotten a bit derailed where they’re not able to get signatures. So they may not be able to bring new states on board. We’ll have to see how that progresses and what impact that’s going to have on future market growth as we move forward.
Bryan Lopez: One of the things I wanted to talk about real quickly is if we’re talking about adjusting to market conditions, we’re really excited and pretty proud of the fact that a lot of our dispensaries once some stay at home orders were given. And a lot of our businesses focus in the state of Maryland, which is where we’re headquartered.
When the stay at home order was given by our governor, it was literally within 24 hours where our business needed to really quickly pivot to something that in our world it’s almost been like an afterthought, which is our online ordering portal and our eCommerce platform.
And it went from being something where we had a point-of-sale system and we showed everybody all these great things that we have. And at the end of this talk that we would have with them, if it was a new prospect, we’d say to them, “Hey, and by the way, we have this online ordering portal over here, and we can work through it, and you can integrate it to your point-of-sale system.” And people kind of nod their head and go, “That’s great, and well, we have WeedMaps and Leafly, and Jane. Okay, great.” But what it did for us, it put us squarely in a conversation where we weren’t just looked at anymore as the point-of-sale system within the four walls of the dispensary.
We had to make some changes to our workflow within our software and make some very rapid enhancements on the online ordering and e-commerce piece to give our dispensary clients an ability to not only transact business outside of their four walls, their normal four walls. But in some cases we have one dispensary that is doing a hundred percent now of their transactions through drive-through. We have other dispensary’s that are doing just curbside. And we have others that are doing a mixture of curbside end delivery. And all of those things that go into our software need to have relevance to those newly changed workflows.
So we were able to do that. We’ve been able to help our customers with it, we’ve even incorporated an integrated electronic payment options. So some of the drivers that are doing door-to-door deliveries are actually walking up to the door and making that transaction for that patient with a debit card that’s cellular-based. Huge value to people when they don’t have access to the cash, and they don’t want to go out.
So these are things that we tried to do in three months or less to continue to drive the value of our platform. And it’s evident because everyone is involved, giving us great feedback about how we can continuously improve the product.
Ed Keating: That’s a great story. And you made me think of something when you said relevant. And I would say that relevant really only gets you so far. It sounds like you’ve really reached a much higher threshold of being indispensable. Relevant is sort of customer satisfaction as opposed to customer delight, but really sounds like you hit the ball out of the park for your clients because they were able to stay in business and continue. As you said, some of them at 100%. Congratulations, that’s a great, great story, and really kudos to the team for pulling that off so quickly.
Bryan Lopez: Thank you. Yeah, it feels good. And you’re right. We do want to be an indispensable partner to these customers. It’s one of the things that I think we as a company are focused on more than anything, which is the customer experience. And the customer experience has got to come not only from how a dispensary customer, the person who’s coming in and buying product, how they interact with that team that’s at the dispensary but how we treat the dispensary, what we can do to help improve their business.
And so that’s one of the things that as we evolve into the future – it’s a big priority of mine as well as Scott’s – to make sure that we uphold that flexibility for our customers, the willingness to listen, the willingness to be flexible with them, and to do whatever it takes to try to help them improve it in their experiences.
It’s tough to do. I think the biggest trick here is just how do you scale that? How do you scale that to not just a dozen clients, but when you start to get bigger, how do you do that with 500 to 1000 clients?
Amanda Guerrero: Well, thankfully learning how to pivot quickly evolve to new workflows and establishing flexibility within your teams are things that are nothing new to the cannabis industry. And it sounds like you, Bryan and Scott and the rest of the BryteMap team are doing a fantastic job at not only providing for your customers, but also to adjusting to this new world that we live in.
I love doing shows like this where we have such passionate thought leaders on with us. Bryan, Scott, thank you so much for your time and your commentary. I feel like I’ve learned a lot, and I know Ed’s enjoyed speaking with you both. Thank you so much for joining. We hopefully look forward to seeing you guys after quarantine or at the next virtual trade show.
Scott Denholm: All right. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Bryan Lopez: Thank you, Amanda. Thank you, Ed.
Amanda Guerrero: Yes. Thank you. Well, Ed, as I mentioned, I learned a lot today, but I wanted to check in one last time and see if there’s anything else I have to look forward to learning over the next week from the data vault?
Ed Keating: Absolutely. There’s still lots going on in the hemp space. So just this week, we’ve gotten some new data in from Tennessee, Kentucky, and Illinois, which could be up to 17,000 records, but we’re digging through that. We think in a lot of cases, it’s one license with many facilities or plots. So we want to make sure that when we do put the information out it doesn’t create a huge spike in licenses, but it still is a lot of new grow licenses coming from these farm states. So not a surprise there.
And then one thing that we’ve started to dig into is some of the unique data that the regulators have been able to share with us on the hemp side. What we’re seeing more of is what kind of seed these farmers say they’re going to use or what the hemp will be used for in terms of different uses for fiber or food, etc. And then for one state, they actually shared whether the property is owned or leased. So we thought those were kind of interesting anecdotes that’s buried in the data and we’re going to see if we can make that more available so that our customers can get a clearer picture of what these licenses and our cultivators are focusing on.
Amanda Guerrero: Well, it’s like they say, the devil is in the details, and it seems like the Cannabiz Media team is on top of it and finding all of these details that will truly be helpful to us as we continue our sales and marketing prospecting for these hemp license holders. Well, thanks for the update, Ed.
This has been the Cannacurio Podcast powered by Cannabiz Media. We are your hosts, Amanda Guerrero and Ed Keating. Thanks for joining us today and stay tuned for more updates from the data vault.